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Singer Melissa Etheridge has spoken out against the passing of Proposition 8 in California. Here is an excerpt from her article on the subject:
“Okay. So Prop 8 passed. Alright, I get it. 51% of you think that I am a second class citizen. Alright then. So my wife, uh I mean, roommate? Girlfriend? Special lady friend? You are gonna have to help me here because I am not sure what to call her now. Anyways, she and I are not allowed the same right under the state constitution as any other citizen. Okay, so I am taking that to mean I do not have to pay my state taxes because I am not a full citizen. I mean that would just be wrong, to make someone pay taxes and not give them the same rights, sounds sort of like that taxation without representation thing from the history books.
She continues:
When did it become okay to legislate morality? I try to envision someone reading that legislation “eliminates the right” and then clicking yes. What goes through their mind? Was it the frightening commercial where the little girl comes home and says, “Hi mom, we learned about gays in class today” and then the mother gets that awful worried look and the scary music plays? Do they not know anyone who is gay? If they do, can they look them in the face and say “I believe you do not deserve the same rights as me”? Do they think that their children will never encounter a gay person? Do they think they will never have to explain the 20% of us who are gay and living and working side by side with all the citizens of California?
I got news for them, someday your child is going to come home and ask you what a gay person is. Gay people are born everyday. You will never legislate that away.”
To read her full response to the legislation, click here.
Where to start…where to start…
Well, for starters, I don’t care at all about gay marriage.
Anatomy.
Man and woman can have kid. If they cannot, then there are reasons…. but overall, majority of them can… in a more “censored” version of my language…. “two holes cannot reproduce, neither can two sticks”. Human anatomy.
And gays are not born that way, we are born with free will… but we are not born gay or straight.
Legislation and morality mix when 51% of the voters approved Prop 8, idiot.
Also, I predict ~100 comments in here before the end of the week.
it’s very easy for straight people to think like “yeah” -
“And gays are not born that way, we are born with free will… but we are not born gay or straight.”
but when you’re born with a natural inclination for the same sex, well…you tend to see things differently.
the “they can’t have kids” argument is bunk. I’m married, i don’t plan on having kids, my wife and i have the same rights as couples with kids. it’s supposed to be a country where we can be free to have religious and personal freedoms. Gays aren’t hurting anyone…
Who says the purpose of marriage is to procreate?
The world is already becoming overpopulated, so really the fewer births the better at this point.
Also, I think the jury is still out on whether or not there are genetic tendencies towards being gay. It’s pretty foolish to make the argument “I wasn’t born gay, so there is no possible way anyone else was.”
Yeah this issue means nothing to me. My wife and I aren’t gonig to get a divorce just ’cause some gays want to get married. Don’t like it? Then go to a church that doesn’t do it. Government can’t really regulate this.
So now what are Chris Carrabba and that Murphy dude going to do?
meh, become episcopalian…we piss everyone off…we drink and love gay people, are generally friendly and jovial…oh and swearing, don’t forget swearing.
Not allowed the same rights?
“California Family Code Section 297.5 – (a) registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law or any other provisions or sources of law as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.”
Just sayin…
Apart from the gay thing Buddy, us Orthodox Presbies aren’t too far behind you. At least w/ the cussing and drinking and whatnot.
Well its not that we don’t love gay people (that was a loaded statement and you almost got it past the goalie!)…we just don’t condone the lifestyle. There’s a difference I think. I don’t think I really hate anybody.
link,
believe what you want.
But I have never heard of a gay baby, but hey… if the kid is told that they are gay or straight their whole life … what are they more likely to believe?
There will always be gays around, but hey…. gay marriage is a new thing, so this will be a debated subject.
and yes, this country can vote to have gay marriage or not to have it… with our freedoms as they are. Same thing with abortions or no abortions.
so, let there be gay people. But I will still not support gay marriages, again, my right as a citizen, heck, freedom of speech. I will support gay people (know a few myself, a few know where I stand with stuff, overall, we are okay with the disagreements). I still feel overwhelmingly wrong about gays marrying. If you feel right about it, then good, that’s your opinion on that matter…. and to get the record correct, I do not hate gays, I just do not like the idea of gay marriage. Does that mean I hate gays? Not really. Just like I do not like country songs that try to be rock, but I don’t hate country (some of the songs are pretty darn catchy at times).
not to be an ace about this type of stuff…. but hey, I will NOT stand here supporting something I do not support…. and I know there are some people who support gay marriage or take a seat on the sidelines, I really do not expect you to agree with my views on this subject.
Why so serious?
over population is a farce. obviously you’ve never been to central michigan or any state in the midwest for that matter. k bye.
Not being able to get married is very different from having one’s citizenship revoked.
yeah! seperate but equal and all that…its been workin great so far…
“Yeah” - you know babies that are straight? that’s awesome!!
ps. i have this great idea - i will “DECIDE” to become gay so that i can add more problems into my already-difficult life. sounds like FUNNNNNN!!
there have been some studies as of late finding that the brains of homosexual people are wired more like the opposite sex (women’s brains wired like men’s and vice versa). so it’s becoming increasingly difficult to say that there’s no scientific basis for homosexual tendencies.
i don’t think homosexuality is a genetic or environmental issue. it’s both. you can’t deny the link between genetics and sexual orientation.
“overpopulation” is generally referring to inadequate resources and infrastructure to support growing populations, not actually running out of land…
who is running out of resources? have you been to a supermarket recently?
Africa. 3rd world nations. It’s more economics than anything else. Water is another biggie. And before you say “have you looked at the ocean recently?” I’ll clarify that it’s clean , non-salinated water that’s in short supply in many 3rd-world countries. You’ve seen those ridiculously exploitative “Ethos” water ads at starbucks, where they say “Why Ethos? So little Adrian and Andreas can have clean water.” It’s that kind of problem (minus the Ethos Water, of course).
I don’t know if any of you read greek or Hebrew, but there are some of us who do and some of us translate/interpret the passages saying that “Homosexuality is a sin” differently than the general populace.
In fact, many scholars (including myself) will argue that most translations that say “homosexuality is a sing” (in different words) is an incorrect translation.
However, I do understand how some could translate it either way.
But if you don’t like gay marriages, don’t get one.
I don’t know if any of you read greek or Hebrew, but there are some of us who do and some of us translate/interpret the passages saying that “Homosexuality is a sin” differently than the general populace.
In fact, many scholars (including myself) will argue that most translations that say “homosexuality is a sin” (in different words) is an incorrect translation.
However, I do understand how some could translate it either way.
But if you don’t like gay marriages, don’t get one.
sorry for the double post. Crap - now it’s a triple post.
I thought part of the government’s purpose was to protect minorities from the majority? It seems ridiculous that this was even voted on. Gays represent like a tenth of the population. Why should straight people be able to determine how they live there lives. Man. I wish you Americans could see what a non-issue gay marriage is here in Canada. Like really. It’s totally not an issue.
“Gay people are born everyday”
NO gay person is born. You are not born gay. It’s not generic. Apparently some scientist thought that was the case, but then they found out that was false. You think being gay is okay and that’s when your own the road to gayness.
Homophobes.
A black person gets elected president and on the same day discrimination is made law. 100 years from now, gays will be married, will be accepted, and will run for president.
Fuck the haters.
“Hate the sin, love the sinner.” - Fuck that, right there you’re putting your focus on the sin, rather than the person. I don’t get on your ass for eating seafood (WHICH THE BIBLE CALLS AN ABOMINATION), so shut the fuck up.
If you don’t care about gay marriage, then don’t vote against it. Grow up.
TDWP fan, where did you study to get your doctorate?
I heard it from someone who must of got the info from the paper or TV. Yeah. Don’t tell me its wrong, because it’s not.
*lol*
I think that TDWPfan has no tact and comes off as more than just a little ignorant but he makes a good point…
Mild details
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1160065/posts
More in depth
http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:ObvnfoviAegJ:www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf+homosexuality+not+genetic&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a
And this is the giant slayer right here from the head of the Human Genome Project.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/mar/07032003.html
He says
“Such estimates of heritability are based upon unbiased, careful analyses of studies conducted with identical twins. The studies lead to the conclusion that heredity is important in many of these personality traits. It is important however, to note that even in such studies with identical twins, that heritability is not to be confused as inevitability.”
He also states
“Yes, we have all been dealt a particular set of cards, and the cards will eventually be revealed. But how we play the hand is up to us.”
I’m with Ryan.
Thank you.
The fact that this passed makes me sick.
As do you guys.
a hundred years ago people thought you were retarded if you were born left handed. please, you can’t be BORN left handed, its a choice…perverts.
Buddy, I’m etching that quote on my tombstone.
oh, and jordan, i read your “research” and its simply put, laughably biased. The very fact that these articles admit that there are biological determinates in sexuality makes the entire argument nil.
I’m glad that we have the internet to solve these issues once and for all, otherwise we’d all have different ideas about the world around us and only some of us would be right. Also: I love lamp.
The issue is yet to be solved
no, it was solved. on Tuesday. With a vote. just kidding. It was solved before time began, but that is another story.
Your being really specific
melissa we need to talk about your big plans to abolish the plans that have been planted upon the gay community. fabulous
wow, you were around when time began tyler? that’s like older than that mel brooks bit.
Speaking of gay people, i just found out a hour ago, that a teacher at my old school who has been teaching there for 26 years, is gay, and married to a Kathy woman. It was humorous news. Did not know that. LOL.
A 2nd grade teacher
what’s the funny part?
TDWP Fan’s blatant ignorance is the “funny part” — wait, maybe that’s not really all that funny… maybe that’s actually really fucking sad.
yeah still not funny
We’re halfway there. Keep up the pace.
I think it’s fucking bullshit. Who the FUCK do people think they are to tell others if they can get married or not? Oh, and TDWP fan, I personally believe that unless you are, in fact, GAY, you cannot say whether or not it’s genetic or chosen. I actually have close family members and friends who have chosen a gay lifestyle, and I’m personally offended by what you said. I can’t help but think this nation is hypocritical, we’re supposed to protect minorities, and then we pass laws like this DISCRIMINATING them…people who think this is acceptable make me sick.
Marriage has become such a joke in this country, I can’t understand how anyone could still consider it oh-so-sacred that two gay people shouldn’t be able to do it.
The only problem I have is gay and lesbians threatening to sue churches for not marrying them.
They should be able to tie the knot all they want but TS if a particular church refuses to do it for you.
Okay, I’ll put my 2 cents in, seeing as things are waning.
I don’t care about government involvement in marriage. I’d actually prefer that way especially at the federal level. States, I think, should stay out but I believe they have the power to define it if they desire to.
However, I will say that a nation does have some utilitarian interest in defining marriage as exclusively heterosexual. Heterosexual marriage ensures that the next generation of a nation’s citizens. The most practical way to go about this is a man and woman in a relationship, bearing and raising children. So there is much sense in a a government encouraging hetero marriage and defining it as such.
Homosexual marriage does not make the same promise. In fact it really does nothing any more than two people living together - the state benefits very little from this and yet it causes no real social harm, so there’s no vested interest in legislating either way about it.
Calling homosexual marriage “marriage” is a bit like calling a square wheel a “wheel”. It might look like a circle if you make it a certain way and can kinda sorta do the same thing as a round wheel, but a mechanic would have to interest in utilizing one in a practical vehicle. Wheels are like they are, and are called what they are for a definite purpose. Right or wrong, marriage has historically been defined heterosexually for the same reason.
Jay, I’m not sure we need so much children to achieve this “next generation.” If anything people are having too many kids. 1) Our resources are waning at a rapid rate. 2) There are millions of kids that have been “misplaced,” are in foster homes, in group homes, or worse.
What’s to say a GAY married couple couldn’t help to relieve some of these burdens, by adopting or fostering these children.
I am straight and I am married… annnnnd I have a child on the way. Still, I am 100% for gay marriage. If the church/pastor is willing to wed them (or a Justice of the Peace for that matter),I see no reason why they should not be able to wed and reap the benefits. Really, it goes beyond the “benefits” for many of them though. It’s about being able to say, “I love this person so much that I’ve joined them, and my government recognizes this.”
heterosexual marriage does not bear children,
heterosexualITY bears children. childbearing outside of marriage is gradually becoming the rule, not the exception.
are you implying that the rights and benefits that are bestowed upon heterosexual married couples are payment in return for the birth of the next generation.
or is a heterosexual marriage between two people who have no intention to bear children a “square wheel”?
yes… have a gay couple adopt maybe a poodle or a cat, but not a child. what if you grew up having two dads or mothers. imagine the confusion and emotional scarring that the child will endure just because melissa and what’s-her-name couldn’t procreate and felt unfulfilled as a couple.
i want to marry my own hand. we spend so much time together i want to show the world my affection and the government won’t let me. i want to know what to call my hand? my wife, my companion… oh the strife and sorrow.
guess what… marrying my own hand is as legitimate as gay marriage.
I don’t expect any of you to think this is funny about some random person you don’t know. If i was you i wouldn’t think it was either, but trust me-if you knew her it would be funny.
I don’t take the Internet that seriously
sleepy, marriage is a contract by two consenting adults, which gives right and privileges to the 2 people engaged in the contract.
your hand is not a consenting adult, nor is a child or a barnyard animal or a car or a delicious piece of rhubarb pie.
The “slippery slope” argument as well, is a pathetic attempt to limit peoples civil rights.
There was a time in this country where it was illegal for a black person to marry a white person. Times change, people change, morals change.
Studies have shown that kids with gay parent aren’t as likely to become gay, however coming from a single parent home or abusive family dramatically increases a child’s chances of becoming a delinquent or being involved in criminal behavior…though no one seems to be outlawing divorce.
I heard that a bunch of pastors got together to make their arguement which brought the issue up in CA
Sleepy, statistics also prove that gay parents are less likely to molest their children than straight ones. I have several friends with gay parents and they turned out perfectly straight. Being beought up by gay parents only makes you be more pregressive and think that being gay is absolutely OK, and you don’t have to have two fathers/mothers to think that.
“Times change, people change, morals change”
for the worst.
yeah, that whole abolishment of slavery was a terrible idea…so too when we stopped burning witches…oh and when we stopped accusing the mentally ill of being demon possessed. get you’re head out of your ass.
i have always thought it strange that we have science to back up a host of psychological oddities, or abnormalities, or “differences” to be more neutral about it, that a person can be born with….everything from schizophrenia to alcoholism to bi-polar disorder…which all sound negative i know….but we still cant get past the fact that maybe somebody can be born with a slight, or strong, orientation for attraction to the same sex, whether it was present at birth or programmed at a time in their life when they weren’t cognizant enough to think otherwise. for people who don’t believe in using the bible as a basis for the decision, me included, it doesn’t leave much room for argument in religious terms. there is no equal footing to start from. so when it comes to blind sterile law, the constitution is pretty clear when it says “all men are created equal”. although i abhor the whining, i believe she has a legitimate point.
but i also believe in reincarnation, so its makes perfect sense to me that a person can be a woman in one life and a man in another, and that certain karmas can follow you from being to being, and sexual tendencies, as well as dysfunctions, can follow you around from life to life until you eliminate the craving for them. this goes for all people, straight or gay.
the bottom line for me in compassion. if you have any hatred or disrespect for homosexuals anywhere in your heart, you probably should not weigh in on the issue. if your only basis for argument are some highly debatable biblical passages, you probably should not weigh in on the issue. this issue is not for straight people to decide. i know that many of you will disagree. i just think we should try to look at it from more of a middle path perspective. people should be allowed to marry whomever they please, and gay couples should be able to reap the same benefits of marriage as straight couples. anything else, in my opinion, is a violation of their civil rights.
i dont mind if there are inconsistencies in my argument. im just a dude anyway. a straight one with many gay friends whom i love and adore and respect and sympathize with. long post award!
haha.
BUDDY FTW!
shes a horrible writer
lol @ katie: “Being beought up by gay parents only makes you be more pregressive”
You are a joke with that comment, and with your previous anger, vitriol and intolerance. You are a perfect example of liberal bigots who hate anyone with an opposing viewpoint.
Being brought up by more progressive parents might make one more progressive. Or going to a progressive school might make you more progressive. Or just being a progressive person definitely makes you more progressive. Sorry, but being gay is not synonymous with progressiveness.
Oh, and Slow down when you type, it’s annoying to see so many typos.
Liberal bigots? At least I’m not telling you how to live your life! Do what you want, believe what you want, but if your trying to ban gay marriage/adoption, THAT’S when you piss me off, because you believe any lifestyle differing from your own should be abolished and are actually trying to do so. And that was the first post I made with multiple typos. Quit being such a dick. If you don’t like my comments or opinions, don’t read them. If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t get one. It’s not fucking rocket science, it’s common sense, something you should look into getting.
i agree with katie. matt, its definitely weird to accuse somebody of “anger, vitriol, and intolerance” when your post is laced with so much of it yourself. you should ESPECIALLY avoid using the word “bigot” in any conversation where you are voicing your opinion against gay marriage. these days, thats pretty much considered textbook bigotry.
..and the comment about being annoyed by her typos was simply petty.
im sure you are a nice dude, and i bet we could have a great time playing darts. its not personal here…not for me at least.
dude. I never said ANYTHING against gay marriage. I just wrote shit against ignorant people like Katie. I voted, 4 days ago, “no” on prop 8. However, I was severely conflicted because, like Sergio, I am really concerned about the very real possibility of churches being sued for not performing gay marriages. Talk about blurring the line between church and state!
“dude. I never said ANYTHING against gay marriage”
She isn’t a dude Matt. Im a dude on the
other hand.
Matt, by saying my liberal views are “intolerant,” you’re saying you are, in fact, against gay marriage. Quit being a biased asshole and attacking me on every thread, it’s PETTY.
74!
Serious thread is serious.
@ cool dude… i thing that matt was talking to me when he was “dude” ing. i am in fact, a dude.
@ matt… i’m not worried about gay couples suing churches. thats silly. i wish that prop 8 had failed. with all humility, it is institutionalized intolerance in my opinion.
straight people have nothing to fear when it comes to gay couples wanting to wed so they can enjoy the same benefits (tax breaks, shared insurance, adoption, etc) as any other married couple.
i think we will look back one day and feel the same shame we feel about a few other unmentionable legalized moments in our GREAT nations history.
“there have been some studies as of late finding that the brains of homosexual people are wired more like the opposite sex (women’s brains wired like men’s and vice versa). so it’s becoming increasingly difficult to say that there’s no scientific basis for homosexual tendencies.”
Uh, duh. I would say a gay person is gay without testing it. I am sure that if I thought I was a llama that my chemical build would be different.
I blame soy anyways.
Oh, and yes, gay people ARE born. My best friend is gay, and that kid was playing with Barbies in preschool and was always very FEMININE.
this thread is full of intolerant comments…so many people don’t tolerate the concept that marriage is between a man and a woman.
To the liberals: you complain that these people are telling you how to live your life. It is the liberal (left-wing whatever you want to call it) side that is always trying to impose a certain lifestyle on others: from gun control to taxes for social programs that haven’t worked and are in much needed reform. It is the liberal mentality to take away the right of the parents to decided what their children are going to learn in school.
you also think that you are morally superior to conservatives. you think you are more intellectual and “open-minded”.
I know this is a tough issue and a lot of people are upset. But marriage is the union of a man and a woman (and yes…it’s assumed that they are in love). Marriage is not the union of two people who happen to be in love. What are you going to do when a father wants to marry his adult daughter? Or a mother and son marriage? Or what if not just two, but three or four people are all in love with each other?
society has lost the concept of right and wrong.
it’s a tough issue. and just because the minority didn’t get their way doesn’t make it wrong.
yep.
And who made YOU the judge of right and wrong? If two people want to get married, why do YOU care? It’s not affecting you. God, it’s been said a million and a half times, if you don’t like gay marriage, DON’T GET ONE. I’m considered a minority, I’m Jewish, and I go to public high school, and I personally don’t want Christian (the majority of America) beliefs shoved down my throat at school. If you want to make sure your kid is learning their religion, send them to private school, but public school is for EVERYONE, not just YOUR child. And I support gays because they’re people just like you and me, they deserve the same rights and people like YOU are trying to take it away from them. The minorites need protection too, and just because you’re not a part of any, doesn’t mean you have the right to take our rights away from us.
And how is being tolerant of gays being intolerant? You make absolutely no sense. Quit talking out of your ass.
thank god you showed up and put us all straight RH, …this thread was in danger of making sense…whew, that is a load off my mind…maybe next you can straighten out all the other “tough issues” …
Lol. Buddy, I have to hand you that one…. you made this thread interesting. Now all I can do is laugh.
A little over a dozen short of Jay’s prediction…
Sorry, bro we tried.
Katie, your argument falls on deaf ears when you voice it with so much hostility.
RH, most folks cant get onboard with somebody who compares marriage between two loving people, who happen to be of the same sex, with a marriage that involves incest, inbreeding, and probably mental illness amongst other things. thats a very weak argument.
i really cant see a right or wrong in this, only opinions. but considering that there are people who are living right now with a hybrid set of male and female genetalia, people who were born that way with no choice or conditioning whatsoever, its difficult to imagine that God, much less some bloke who posts their thoughts on internet messageboards, can or has made any hard and fast rules about how to deal with it, much less a mandate on what a marriage is.
and before anybody goes quoting biblical scripture pertaining to marriage, let me be clear that i’m not talking about that limited view of God. i say that with the utmost reverence for the bible.
i think its an issue that will resolve itself as long as we commit ourselves to compassion and steer clear of trying to limit anybodys right to the “pursuit of happiness”.
#85. do it for Jay!
I’m defiitely one of the more attacked people on this thread, I can’t help but be hostile :/
We’re almost there Jay!
you just don’t quit with these classics: “you’re saying you are, in fact, against gay marriage”
Please point out where I said that, because I didn’t.
And because a kid plays with Barbies and is “feminine” that makes them gay? Great logic there (none).
No one has replied to my original post, where I quoted the CA law:
“California Family Code Section 297.5 – (a) registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law or any other provisions or sources of law as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.”
Blah blah blah. You’re so lame. You still hold a grudge after I called you butthurt and have been insulting me on every thread I post on since. You’re such a loser. You’re calling me and my views, including my stance on gay marriage, intolerant. And my friend has been sexually/emotionally attracted to other boys since he was 11 and even before he was very feminine and had gay tendancies. Princess, pull your head out of your ass. You’re just making yourself look even more desperate for attention.
89. I like to play guitar…
As far as i know you cant be born gay, but maybe they found out you can
I might be gay. I have a few showtune soundtracks on my iPod. Some of them not by choice, however.
i’m only gay when i’m watching project runway,then i go back to being straight until the next episode.
If gays were in the beginning (they were?)…then we would have Adam and Andrew..haha…and Eve and Fiona..say??…
Oh shoot! I watch Project Runway, too. Forgot about that. It’s the wifey’s show but I still think it’s fabulous.
Even gayer: I thought Christian from last season was super annoying, but he won me over by the end. Seems like a guy I could hang with. He’s annoying/arrogant/flamboyant but he didn’t seem mean-spirited or sneaky, and he’s FIERCELY talented. FIERCE.
Seriously, I’m a fruit.
Oh wow. I completely forgot about that. Glad to know you remember. For the record, you’re the only one with the desperate personal attacks. I’ve been making legit points, you’ve been making logical fallacies and insults. Calling someone’s views intolerant is not an insult and it’s not an admission or explanation of my own viewpoint.
To spell it out for you, you can’t just say “I have this one friend…he’s been gay since he was little…therefore gay people are born that way.” Sorry, it doesn’t work like that.
You think I wake you up and seek you out and try to find faults in everything you post. In reality, I only look at threads that interest me, and you happen to be posting the most inane and flawed things on here, so it’s hard not to reply.
Oh, and still haven’t addressed the law I posted.
“they weren’t around in the begining”, neither were you. and for that matter anyone you know. or anyone who wrote a book that says gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry because they weren’t around… my argument is that you have no idea, nor are you in a position to impose your beliefs on someone else. America was founded on personal freedoms and now we’re trying to eliminate them. Tthat is a slippery slope if i ever heard one.
Yeah, too bad that law only acknlodges married couples, which can only be heterosexual ever since prop 8. And I poitned out my friend to the people who think that being gay is completely by choice for everyone. For some it might be, for others, not the case. Like I said earlier, you can’t say which one unless your gay yourself, and my friend has repeatedly said he was born that way. And AGAIN (I seem to be repeating myself a lot with you) If you don’t like my comments, DON’T READ THEM. Oh my god, that was so hard! So close Jay, so close! And I admit to watching Project Runway myself…but I can get away with it
Buddy, do you think this is about stopping people from being gay and being in committed relationships, or is it about redifining marriage? I mean, I guess ultimately that’s the heart of the issue. Should marriage be redefined? I don’t know the answer to that. Even the most pagan and “sexually open” societies throughout history have never dared to redefine marriage to mean anything other than between a man and woman. I always thought that was the point of civil unions. “Hey we can’t redefine something that is so ancient and frankly so sacred, but we can work around it and give you the same kinds of civil protection you’re looking for”.
Just some thoughts/questions on the whole thing. I’m not for the government regulating people’s personal lifestyle choices, you know that.
But what has marriage always meant? Is it between a man and a woman or between two people who love eachother and want to spend the rest of their lives together? I think at least from a legal standpoint gays deserve to get married. I mean, your boyfriend/girlfriend can’t decide what happens to you if you’re a vegetable hooked up to machines, but your spouse can. THAT’S JUST AN EXAMPLE PEOPLE, DON’T SHIT YOUR PANTS. But you catch the drift.
WE DID IT! 100!
Again, that’s what the civil unions are about. About protecting those rights for people in committed homosexual relationships. Katie the dictionary does indeed define marriage as between a man and a woman. This is the dilema. Do we redefine the term as the generations have understood it or do we find another way to grant civil protection while letting the definition of marriage, something that many consider to be sacred, alone?
all i gots to say is this: if you don’t like lesbians you aretruly weird.
Katie, there can still be legal contracts between two gay folk, so that covers a lot of things marriage covers “automatically”. Don’t quote me on that.
But, you’re right. WE HAVE LIFTOFF!!1111
PYYOOOOOOOO
Its a hard question. I see the comparison to the “seperate but equal” crap and I see the problems that come along with that.
I also see the problem w/ redefining terms and language because of the demands of social groups.
Its definitely worth considering from both sides and those who simply rush into judgements on either side are morons at best.
andy i hear ya, but don’t you see that words are powerful, by saying “you guys can have civil unions, which are just like marriage, but not really” still sends the message, you’re not like us and we don’t accept you. And that’s what i have the most trouble with. it seems like a consolation prize… Now i realize where we run into trouble is the definition of marriage, is it a holy sacriment or is it a legal document? I just don’t think people should be penalized for “the lifestyle they choose” especially when its a legal one. whether you get married in a church or not you still have to go to a court house and pick-up a certificate of marriage, which i think should be available to 2 consenting adults, regardless of sexuality. The fact that they can request a certificate and be denied is discriminatory. Civil unions aren’t a far cry from Jim Crow laws, as i see it.
The law is only referring to married couples? What the fuck are you talking about? The whole point of the law (I’ll paste again for your edification) is that “domestic partners” (aka people with “civil unions”) have all of the same “rights, protections and benefits” as married couples, as well as the same “responsibilities, obligations and duties under law.” And the language goes even further to say that truly anything that applies to a married couple must also apply to domestic partnerships when it says “or any other provisions or sources of law as are granted to and imposed upon spouses”.
Got it now? And if you post something on the internet, you are expecting people to read it and respond if they find it necessary. So don’t tell me to “not read them.” If you don’t want me (or anyone else) to read them, DONT POST THEM.
Lastly, to address your question: “But what has marriage always meant? Is it between a man and a woman or between two people who love eachother and want to spend the rest of their lives together?”
A. It has always meant “between a man and a woman.” Only recently has this begun to change. Thanks for playing, though.
Now, before YOU “Shit your pants,” remember that I voted no on 8. I am simply playing devils’ advocate, showing that there really are two legitimate sides to this issue. There is no “right” and “wrong,” in my opinion, simply different opinions. It is intolerant and bigoted for one side to assume that the other side is a bunch of idiots.
And, once again, for Katie:
“California Family Code Section 297.5 – (a) registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law or any other provisions or sources of law as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.”
Sweetheart, don’t you have ANYONE else to pick a flamewar with? You must seriously be bored. Here, I’ll give you a link to a website and you can get off this one.
Here, JUST for Matt.
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Main_Page
I’m not trying to have a “flamewar” (as you call it), I, like most people in this thread, am trying to talk about a relevant issue. You’re the one that seems hellbent on avoiding any meaningful dialogue and resorting to personal attacks over and over again. And “sweetheart”? Really?
I call everyone names like that, including hun, princess, doll, and kid. Just a habit. I’m not starting any of these arguments. You point me out and insult me. I have time and time again made a valid point.
Katie, what is that your holding? A cat?
Yes siree. Her name is Roxy. She’s the coolest kitty on earth.
your cat is gay
not that there’s anything wrong with that
No, she’s asexual. She’s spayed and has no sexual attraction to other cats.
well that’s her choice
Of course it is.
@ Jay. i had the same experience with christian from project runway. sort of a love/hate/fiercenes thing. you and i are soooo gay together.
Thuper!
*sips appletini*
HUH?
What’s the difference between being gay, and straight?
Is being straight when you like someone of the same sex? Or when you like someone of the opposite sex?
… I think it’s the first one